Podcast with Rodger Nichols
Podcast with Rodger Nichols

Podcast with Rodger Nichols

Great pleasure to speak with a fellow Oregonian and book lover, Rodger Nichols, on his podcast, Cover to Cover Book Beat. We discussed the many iterations the novel went through, the struggles to find character voices, the writing process especially around a series and the pros and cons of planning versus writing strictly from inspiration, and just general information on my debut novel, Children of the Dying Hearth.

Transcript via YouTube:


0:18 [Music]

0:23 welcome to cover to cover book beat I’m your host Roger Nichols one of the real joys of interviewing authors is getting

0:30 on the ground floor with a first novel from an author who delivers the goods right out of the box that’s just what’s

0:36 happening here what’s more Our Guest today is a native Oregonian like myself who has certainly paid his dues having

0:42 served in the trenches at a high school history and Latin teacher for the past 5 years down at St Mary School in Medford

0:48 he earned his ba in history with a focus on Pagan and Christian interactions in late Antiquity from the University of

0:54 Portland and he masters with a focus on Royal Saints in high medieval Scandinavia from pom University where he

1:01 was also a teaching assistant writing coach and a Blog editor for the history Department he’s a bit of a poly math as

1:08 well he speak Spanish Italian and Latin played Semi-Pro soccer in Romania Spain

1:13 Portugal and Germany coaches an all girl soccer team has taken up Brazilian jiujitsu is an avid video gamer his

1:21 academic memberships include the American historical Academy American classical league and the hagiography

1:26 society he’s also a First Rate writer who first novel it’s a page touring fantasy called Children of the dying

1:33 heart we’re very pleased to welcome Martin Nelson thanks for being thanks for

1:39 having me I’m happy to be here well you have so many interests were you always going to be a

1:44 writer uh I always wanted to create ever since I was a little kid uh you

1:50 mentioned at one point in that uh glowing review of me that uh as a Avid

1:57 video gamer um ever since I was three four years old I’d watch my older brother play video games and I’d make up

2:03 stories in my head to little side quests or I end up drawing little maps on sketchbooks of uh Fantastical little

2:11 quests and Adventures that sort of thing and so I always had that uh real creative kind of fantasy

2:18 Drive hidden in me somewhere um and it was actually when I was in Germany

2:24 playing soccer that I ended up Penning uh Children of the dying Hearth um I was over there playing twice a day basically

2:31 training twice a day and I had so much time on my hands in between that I’d either be watching uh German television

2:38 to try and brush up on my German which is sadly kind of lapsed into uh the

2:44 words I shouldn’t say um and just kind of back into that

2:50 fantasy world um and so I started having the kind of core of the series idea because it’s it’s actually the first

2:56 book in a series of six um so the first one is published it’s all out there

3:01 Children of the dying Hearth you can find it uh on my own website martinr nelson.com you can find it on Amazon um

3:08 all online retailers but the second one is in the editing phase right now and the third one’s about halfway written

3:15 for manuscript um yeah you know this it’s a technically your first novel but it sure

3:22 doesn’t read like the first novel it reads like a writer who’s already found his voice and I want to mention that it looks like you want an honorable mention

3:28 in the elron hubard future writers contest a shorter story it turned in yeah uh which actually that one uh it

3:34 called the the Journal of of Dr Rudy J glean um and it was a bit of a a science

3:41 fiction um not quite dystopian but it was a set in the near future um and I

3:47 originally planned that for being a longer story but I had kind of the the Nugget of the idea kind of Popp

3:54 into my head of basically what if ethical scenario and I just kind of started writing about it and expanding

4:02 on that a little bit and uh it was also after a pretty healthy Lovecraft binge

4:08 because I’d always heard before i’ read Lovecraft of what a great Gothic horror

4:13 suspense writer he is so I read one of those big Barnes & Nobles collection that has like everything but maybe some

4:20 letters so there’s a bit of his voice in that short story um which when you said

4:27 I I found my voice perhaps already uh in Children of the dying Hearth in this first book um first of all thank

4:34 you but second of all that’s I think it’s it’s from so many different iterations of it um so many different

4:41 drafts of going through and and finding each character’s voice because it is a a multi-perspective novel so whether it’s

4:49 the 13-year-old pirate or the 500y old elf they they have different ways of speaking different ways of thinking

4:55 about the world and really kind of compartment analyzing that self uh that

5:02 that part as I’m writing it is one of the enjoyable processes but is it can

5:07 also be one of the frustrating ones when I go back and edit I’m like this reads much more as a a Damian chapter rather than a Kell chapter or a fay chapter so

5:15 I’ve read and reread and edited and re-edited so many times that it’s it’s

5:21 definitely not a first draft I I I have yeah there’s difference between first

5:26 graph and first published by a long way um and yeah wellow that that was that

5:32 was just amazing and so interesting I lost my PR thought here for a second oh this this is something I do would like

5:37 to ask people who are planning on Multi book sagas do you know the ending right

5:43 now in your head last scene last book the final scene of the last

5:50 book there’s a a vague image of it I know the core events of everything of all six books I know them the main bits

5:58 and um one of the things that I like to do is I didn’t actually publish this I sat on it as a completed draft or

6:05 completed work for the most part for about seven years um and it was one of

6:10 those things of getting a really busy one with teaching and coaching and traveling and all these things so having

6:15 the dedicated time to sit down and continue writing was was tough but now I’m um in a much more kind of stable

6:22 environment to to write and so um I think it was two summers ago I just

6:27 cranked out the second book as a ref draft um and then over the last year I’ve been editing it and I’ve finally

6:33 given it to someone else to like take a look at this um mark it up do everything you can to it

6:39 um and the reason I bring that up is because I have the main um elements of

6:47 every book there I know the main kind of character Arc of of what’s GNA happen

6:55 each six but in terms of the Nuance not at all that’s one of those things that I

7:00 think that would also take away of from the creativity of it because there’s so many times in especially right in the

7:06 second and the third book where I’m thinking this would be such a neat idea but it feels kind of random if it’s

7:12 not hinted at or alluded to in some way um and so when I finished that second

7:18 book as a rough draft I was like I should put something in the first draft in the first book Children of the dying

7:23 Hearth before I actually publish it and so I dropped a couple little Easter eggs in the first one that will lead into

7:28 things in the second one and the same’s true now for the second going into the third yeah that that’s that’s

7:35 fascinating one thing that really stands out to me and I read a lot of books interview a lot of authors is the

7:41 multitude of themes that you’re able to weave into this you’ve got a quest a hero’s journey multiple Coming of Age

7:47 Tales a pirate sag a desert treack political Intrigue High fantasy ancient prophecies and a hint of romance in

7:54 there so by way I look at it you’re only missing the Western and the police procedural which she’ll probably have by

8:00 book three well you could make a case there’s a

8:06 little bit of the police procedural there um no it’s and that’s that’s one

8:12 of the my biggest issues actually is when I’m trying to kind of market and

8:17 sell the book until I met with my publicist Brian finebloom and he really helped me kind of like no what is it

8:24 about and the thing that I always went back to is is the the heart of the story

8:30 is that everybody regardless of who you’re at whether you’re the middle-aged politician or the coming of age pirate

8:36 or the mixed race person in the city who’s trying to find their voice and and not be seen for your identity as what’s

8:44 skin surface that sort of thing um regardless of who you are the the heart

8:50 of it is we have a childlike tendency to stay where we’re comfortable which is

8:55 where the part of the title comes from um however in order to truly grow you

9:01 have to get out into that discomfort you have to get out of your comfort zone and go where sometimes you need to know you

9:08 need to you you’re aware that that is where I need to be other times it’s more of just the driving force of your life

9:14 puts you there and it’s the decision of do I sink back into that comfort zone

9:19 into the the dying Hearth that crumbling house that there may be a smoldering wreckage of a fire still going or do I

9:27 go off into the snow today and get uncomfortable and cold because out there

9:32 is my actual kind of Destiny um and so regardless of who the character is and

9:38 they have many differences as you mentioned um each one of them has that internal journey and it’s not so much

9:45 the they’re not all the heroes Quest go slay the dragon um it’s a much more

9:51 internalized Journey for some of them which is also why I place this book as kind of a a new adult fiction rather

9:57 than young adult because it it has more Nuance I feel than some of the young adults uh fiction where it’s it’s much

10:06 more just right on the nose here’s what it’s about here’s the the obvious got to go slay the dragon um the dragon in some

10:13 people’s cases in the book may be the relationship between a parent and them

10:18 of in order to get out from under the kind of oaces of their parents um or parent

10:26 singular they need to tell their parent I’m an adult I need you need to treat me as an adult whether

10:31 you like it or not and if that means me leaving the house I’m gone um there’s a Allied theme a quote that

10:39 runs through the book maybe if I do this you’ll all change and that feels like magical

10:46 thinking to us because that’s kind of the definition of magical thinking but that has different resonance in the

10:51 universe where magic works yeah so and again that’s kind of all of us are

10:58 guilty of saying if I just do this this will happen so yeah and that um you’re

11:03 you’re getting at one of the one of the main characters is Warf he’s a middle-aged uh not quite middle-aged I

11:08 won’t say that he’s in his mid-30s um I don’t want to say that because I’m in my mid-30s and I don’t want to be middle-aged yet um he’s mid late 30s um

11:17 he’s been pirating all his life and he had a a runin with an

11:23 individual that just really ruined his worldview it shattered everything that

11:29 he knew as a pirate who says if I want this I’m going to go take it I’m going to go with the strongest Captain that

11:34 will bring me the greatest riches and I’m going to live the life of me me me

11:40 and there’s an individual that he meets that just wrecks his psyche and she says

11:48 maybe if I do this you’ll all change and does a certain action that I don’t want to ruin the the climax or the the big plot point

11:56 there um but it it it’s especially as a teacher it’s amazing how I mean out of

12:02 the mouth of babes right it’s the idea that sometimes the greatest wisdom as

12:09 simple as it can kind of sound in that dreamy magical sort of way it can sometimes be as simple as

12:16 that of a an action sometimes very drastic can just change someone’s world

12:22 view totally so that they do a 180 on who they are and it’s part of what

12:28 happened with him that actually gets him um introduced in a way to cat who’s the

12:33 younger pirate who he takes under his wing yeah kind of teaches them the ropes of the ship yeah and I I should tell

12:40 people if if you know I almost suggest this even for slightly younger than you

12:45 are because a lot of our yours these days are involved with a lot more stuff exposed to a lot more than certainly I

12:52 was in my childhood but there’s a lot of characters to identify with in this from

12:58 whatever age level you are I find that fascinating as well one of the reasons it read so well is there’s an immense

13:04 amount of World building behind the scenes on this you can just feel that um

13:09 one of the examples is H Simon the ice Weaver was able to create giant spikes of ice and you sum up his story in four

13:17 sentences and that but those four sentences resonate with about the half a

13:22 book behind it so yeah I love that I love that yeah there

13:27 there’s a lot that’s not included in the book that I have written and it’s it’s one of those things where I I really

13:34 don’t want surface level fantasy um it’s and I’m with a with a masters in history

13:43 I my wife she thankfully enjoys this that when we’re watching a movie I just

13:48 pick out plot holes left and right and she’s like yeah why didn’t they do that like I don’t

13:53 know and as now a a writer I I really

13:59 don’t want that that to happen with mine um I want there to be good explanations for why didn’t they do this why didn’t

14:06 they do that um and Simon’s one of my favorite characters the Pirates in general I just enjoy writing so much I

14:13 think there’s a a good catharsist to it but um actually going back to what you said before of there’s kind of

14:19 identifying yourself in several different characters um that is my goal

14:25 because I don’t want this to be a strictly like I said adult or new adult

14:30 even I want someone who is middle-aged who is maybe wondering like all right I’ve accomplished my career goals what

14:37 do I do now um it’s like well you’re in your comfort zone now yeah so if you want to change something you have to get

14:44 out of that um there’s I don’t think it’s any uh kind of great mystery than

14:51 why tolken had Bilbo gone in his Adventure when he was 55 it’s it’s one of those things of it’s

14:58 the adventure Venture isn’t just for the young it’s for everyone and so identifying yourself I identify myself

15:04 with every single character funny enough um but it’s that that is really the goal

15:10 um for whoever the reader is let me ask a procedural question because I have this vision of the serial killer task

15:19 force in the room with the giant white board with the cards and the strings going all over the place is that the

15:25 kind of things going on in your background uh yes but it’s all digital thankfully uh or not thankfully because

15:33 sometimes I would love to take um I use scrier to write which has a fantastic uh

15:39 platform to basically drop those sort of connections and you can do different pin

15:45 notes and whatnot um I would love to have that on a wall and be able to track

15:51 things and and do all that but um I don’t have the space for that and that’s I also don’t want to open my garage and

15:58 have my neighbor like what is that insane person doing in there with of serial killer they tracking like no it’s

16:04 for my book he’s he’s putting that tin hat on his head again we should be careful yeah

16:10 yeah um so yeah I I have um a lot of

16:15 notes and a lot of kind of digital sticky notes yeah I I got to throw

16:21 another bone your way I love the fact that that the heart of the place is Crux

16:27 yeah which is a which is got multiple levels of meaning there because it’s the source of the problem of corruption but

16:34 it’s also the center of the Kingdom if you will if you want to call it that of the of the world as it is um and also

16:42 you know c means cross as well so there’s maybe a hint of religious significance in that as well and I know

16:47 that you’re got interest in that direction yeah um all my educational background is more or less in the study

16:54 of Christianity and Catholicism um and really just relig religion um throughout

17:00 the Middle Ages so there is a heavy heavy influence and aspects of religion

17:06 will play a more important role as the series progresses in this first one Children of the dying Hearth it really

17:12 is much more the um kind of the paving stone for everything it’s it’s meant to

17:19 build up more Intrigue in the world rather than just bash you over the head with um here’s all the religious

17:26 background of every single character it’s like that I get people really do love the sil melion but I don’t think it’s a great

17:33 way to to introduce readers to a series by saying here’s the full cosmological

17:38 background of every character every race every I had all planned out but I know most readers won’t really want to see

17:45 much of that right away um I I’m actually I’m very happy with how parts

17:52 of the second book are really shaping up because they when with your mention of of Simon the ice Weaver

17:59 um there’s other aspects of that that will come up um with another a new

18:04 narrating character theena who’s a female dwarf she’s one of the rulers and

18:10 um she’s she has a I love her her story arc but there’s a couple things that I

18:17 was able to incorporate because one of them is as a medievalist I’ve taken a

18:22 lot of influence from my medieval studies and put it in in my own way um

18:27 one of the uh things that I actually teach in my Vikings class is we we read

18:33 What’s called the Rula which is a foundational text for the Norse about where the classes came from the

18:39 different class system within Norse society and I made my own document of

18:46 that I created a full poem for it with all the different house families and the creation of why certain families are

18:53 farmers certain families are miners certain families etc etc um and

18:59 writing that out fully and then in the second book just having little hints to

19:04 it and Illusions it to me makes it much more engaging and

19:11 a richer story overall really excited about that you’ve written a story Bible for your for your

19:18 whole concept is what you’ve got yeah when the people do that for the showrunners for various Ser they have a

19:24 Bible that has all the all the real important stuff about it so that different writers can write in that Universe yeah

19:30 um how long has this book this one been out I’m not I haven’t checked the publication date on it so this one’s now

19:36 been out uh for two years I believe okay it came out um I want to say December 21

19:43 it came out right in the middle of all the fun and games yeah yeah during during the time when people

19:49 are really getting uncomfortable exactly well I I guess I was going to

19:56 ask you I I know you’re getting great reviews you’re get some festar reviews on Amazon publishes weekly speaks sideway have you um how are the kids at

20:04 school reacting um well that actually it kind of brings in another review which kirkus

20:10 had some uh they had a good review on it but they had some some fun language with it which was they mentioned uh there’s

20:15 some grotesquery and there’s one scene that they describe as ghoulish um and

20:22 part of that is because I wanted this to be fairly accurate for the character

20:28 particularly the Pirates um and so when the students discovered that I had

20:34 written a book um they were interested in it and one of the things I actually checked with my Administration about

20:39 before I even published it was there are scenes of violence there’s scenes of

20:46 some adult interactions there’s nothing um salacious about it I’ll put it that

20:53 way there’s nothing salacious there’s nothing gratuitous about it which I mean it’s the way describ this to someone

20:59 else was it’s not the next entry into the Saw movie franchise yeah it’s not just a bunch of torture porn um but at

21:06 the same time if you do any sort of honest Research into real pirates um

21:13 Edward Teach uh Charles vain these are brutal individuals yeah very very brutal

21:21 and so I wanted to pretty much have a honest depiction

21:26 of real world p Pates um and so part of that then meant including scenes that

21:34 kirkus described as kind of grotesque um and when the students discovered it I

21:39 was like uh oh this is possibly bad um should I have written under a pen name my Administration was like no it’s this

21:45 is your work go publish it it’s bless their hearts good for you um but when

21:51 they found it they actually loved it um I just had a a former student and um

21:58 soccer player of mine reached out to me recently um because she’s I think a junior right now um at University and

22:07 she was asking about the second book when’s that coming out and I was I can send you a little teaser of it if you

22:13 want um but I can’t give you the full thing right now that that’ll be hopefully coming out at the end of the

22:18 year but we got to see other plans coming up because actually uh my wife

22:23 and I are expecting our firstborn um at the end of this month start of next month they keep moving the day forward

22:29 so congratulations on that one you talk about changing your life yeah massive

22:35 changes just be prepared as I as a long-term parent and grandparent so yeah

22:41 it’ll happen to you definitely out of my comfort zone so oh definitely especially

22:46 at 300 am yeah that that’ll come um I have to have to throw a a different

22:54 tack what was it like to play pro soccer over in Europe um so I do want to give a slight

23:00 clarification because I would say semipro I was in one of the lower divisions um uh in ger I ended up in

23:07 Germany but I did an academy in Romania Spain and Portugal um and that was first

23:13 time I did the Academy I was 19 and then second time I was 21 and after that I got I ended up getting picked up by um

23:21 or I kind of seen by a German Scout and he said coming over to Germany um and so

23:27 I played for season over there with uh a lower division team which was I mean

23:32 neat he’s like you can live here rent free like R board’s more or less taken care of here’s a a car to drive around I

23:39 mean it wasn’t any sort of Ferrari or anything it was a little uh VW Golf that

23:45 you’re basically giving you a car to go drive around and and go to practice and

23:50 everything which great um doing that as a a low low 20- yearold was a lot of fun

23:57 um it was also deeply inspiring because I had just finished my undergrad um and so

24:05 living in Europe I’d been to Italy when I was uh 14 um with a school trip and

24:13 that was amazing um I was not as appreciative as I probably should have been as a 14-year-old um after you see

24:20 the the 500th church you’re kind of like it’s another very large church I’m tired of walking you know it’s and very

24:28 privileged thing to do but at the same time um going back as an adult um much

24:33 deeper appreciation for it and being a just to kind of wander around Frankfurt or bad homberg where I was located um it

24:41 was very inspiring um for definitely the medieval settings um that I I really

24:49 want to evoke throughout one part of the Crux but the Crux is a little bit more based off of um late Antiquity

24:56 Rome it has much more that kind of Fallen Empire feel where you’re living

25:02 in a city that is on the decline but the people don’t necessarily know yeah yeah

25:08 and and again because we have a whole small slice of time we don’t see that that decline uh if it comes on gradually

25:16 enough um just thr Cur to me that uh is your background in the soccer overseas

25:23 when you you’re and you’re coaching soccer here does are there different styles of coaching that you picked up

25:29 there that you’re using yeah there well there’s um there’s more of an international uh especially when I was

25:37 over there there was kind of a not quite Universal uh but there was a movement in the international soccer community that

25:43 was moving towards kind of a almost Universal style of play The Dutch had a little bit different um the Germans were

25:48 just dominating everything uh during that time um they won all the Euro under

25:54 20 under 18 like all the all the youth were winning they had just won the World

25:59 Cup so Germany was the PowerHouse and their style was more or less being adopted by everyone um the Spanish not

26:06 so much but it it I’m digressing the when I come back here it it’s

26:11 interesting to see the American style of play which is adopting more European

26:18 Styles um I think part of that’s just because of success um different coaching

26:23 Styles I think this also gets the teaching um

26:29 that the the more you experience the more you’re going to learn um and if you’re not learning from multiple

26:35 experiences then uh you need to change the view of yourself because we don’t know

26:41 everything right so every time I engage with a new coach I go into it even if I don’t like the coach what can I learn

26:48 from them yeah there was a a fantastic coach I worked with in there’s several I

26:54 worked with in Southern California um I used to coach at at modern day high school it’s a very very big high school

27:00 um and got my start coaching there under Matty West who’s great guy but one of his JV coaches guy named Lawrence he

27:08 gave me some great advice and said every good coach is a thief and if you’re not stealing from

27:14 other coaches in terms of like what they’re doing and what’s working then you’re not g to be a good coach because

27:20 you’ll be set in your ways of this works from this is always going to work yeah whereas if you play against a good team

27:26 like what are they doing oh they’re doing that I need to do that yeah it’s very much adap or die within that best

27:33 practices kind of thing yeah yeah exactly well I should I should stir back to the book because you’re you’re so

27:39 easy to go down these rabbit Trails because you got so many interests as all I have to talk a little bit about cat

27:45 one of my favorite characters in in the book because it’s a real surprise I

27:50 don’t want to spoil the introduction of them but it caught me off guard I’ll say

27:56 that and the fact that he is a real great entry point to teach about the uh

28:04 the culture and what’s going on the pirate because it gets explained to him as he’s happening to him we feel that

28:09 fight curiously and I have a feeling that was more fun for you to write than maybe some of the other parts the

28:15 Pirates in general uh were just kind of fun they’re just it’s uh they’re hard to

28:21 describe why it’s fun maybe it’s because of just catharsis um but there’s also I think a bit of

28:28 just lost Adventure in writing about Pirates of straight up especially in the

28:34 digital age I mean people are worried about being tracked and and everything it’s like well you carry a track around

28:40 every day with you with your phone um so writing about characters who are totally

28:46 Lawless and all they want to do is go out and do their own thing and um pillage and plunder and we’ll take what

28:53 we want um there’s a direct line from that from one of the later Pirates later on when he singing a song um the

29:00 followup line isn’t totally appropriate so I won’t say it but it’s it’s it

29:05 really is a take what you can take what you want and you know live your best

29:10 life and it really is like your best life not thinking of anyone else which is why I really enjoy cat and his

29:17 relationship to Warf because it it provides a a kind of

29:24 introduction to as independent as a are a kind of filial quality between those

29:30 on the ship where there’s this idea of like yeah if my buddy next to me dies I might get some more loot but at the same

29:36 time I got to make sure that you know if if I say his life he might save mine

29:42 there’s a yeah brothers and arms aspect as independent as they are um C though I

29:48 think this is this is true with most fictional youth characters um is they as

29:56 much as they operate for their own Heroes Journey they

30:01 operate as the lens of the reader um I think of Harry Potter as a

30:08 fantastic as a reader we don’t know anything about the magical world and neither does Harry so let’s find out through him um so he’s a vehicle for the

30:15 reader as much as anything um I don’t know many people that are going to want to endure what cat endures um I don’t

30:22 know if there’s many people who really want to run away from home and go join a

30:28 a pirate ship um but at the same time there’s I think of people that have uh a

30:35 life in a town that they’re not happy with um I feel like the classic story in in America is growing up in a small town

30:42 in the midwest they move out to LA to become an actor and I would say looking at the the last

30:52 couple years of of what happened in Hollywood what was revealed it’s Hollywood kind of functioned like a

30:57 pirate ship of the captains in command really had their way with people and did whatever they wanted um unfortunately

31:04 yes yeah and so it the this is I think also the the Deep joy for me of writing

31:09 fantasy is writing a story about a actor actress

31:15 who moves to the valley and tries to make it big in Hollywood I lived in La for a bit but I

31:21 don’t have a lot of experience with trying to do that so it would be tough um

31:27 but writing from a historical perspective about a pirate who tries to do a similar sort of thing of go out

31:34 where it’s very dangerous and deal with predatory people that can then speak to

31:40 the the actor actress who’s trying to make their way but they keep getting prayed on by an agent or producer or

31:46 director whatever it is um it’s a vastly different world but it’s the same Human Experience which is really why I like

31:54 writing fantasy is you can boil it down to The Human Experience rather than the kind of

32:00 situational experience of the real world well it takes an uh a writer’s

32:05 observational eye to to think of those connections like that so obviously it’s

32:11 the the force is strong with you young one um uh when you the the phrase that maybe if

32:19 I do this you’ll all change is isn’t that a bit of author’s hope in writing a

32:24 book yeah there’s uh I think there’s I

32:29 mean you could read dooi and still find Hope um it’s uh there’s there’s hope I

32:37 think in every book of whether it’s a warning hope or just a a hopeful message

32:42 in general um there is a and I think for for children of the dying hearth for

32:48 this first one and honestly for the series going forward it’s the hope that

32:53 people become more introspective um and they start to

33:02 realize their comfort zones where they’re at emotionally spiritually physically professionally whatever it is

33:10 and whatever of unhappiness they have in their life

33:15 um a lot of it comes down to perception um for much Cas I I take a

33:20 lot of influence from the stoics um I love Mark celius and senica and there’s

33:26 some of will be coming out as as more books progress but it’s the greatest enactor of change in

33:34 your life is you it’s not someone else so if you’re uncomfortable do something about it um if you’re too

33:42 comfortable you’re not going to grow and if you want to grow then do something about

33:47 it yeah so there is a hope there but it’s it’s for every reader again and this is why I label it as as new adult

33:55 um I feel like the emotional maturity will be more there for the 16 17 18 and

34:00 up rather than the 12 13 um teaching a couple 12 13 year olds um I have an eth

34:06 grade Latin class that um the level of introspection isn’t

34:12 always that I I very distractable at that age I like hurting cast is there

34:20 anything we’ve not touched on you want to make sure that our listeners know about you the book the series um

34:27 I think we hit a lot of the high points um once again if people are are interested and I hope they are they can

34:33 check out my writing um not just for children of the dying Hearth but for everything they there’s a free download of the uh honorable mention

34:41 award-winning uh short story uh that I wrote that’s up on my website that website is martinraynelson.com

34:48 um there’s also my academic writing up there um so if anyone is more inclined

34:55 to see what I wrote academically about um late Antiquity or um Denmark and the

35:01 high Middle Ages there’s a couple samples up there as well um yeah I just

35:07 hope people check out the book it’s on every major online retailer um for ebook I believe Amazon has the physical copy

35:15 and um I’m not totally sure about Barnes & Noble but um yeah you can find on

35:20 Amazon it’s in hard copy hardback and um an ebook so perfect

35:27 thank you so much for your time been very generous with your time today I appreciate that our guest today Martin Nelson the book is Children of the dying

35:33 Hearth all the best and we will be back for for book two when that comes out yeah I’d love to be here thank you so

35:40 much thank you [Music]

35:48 Roger

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